RE: Values, a rebuttal to Ruth's response

[M Jabbour <finance.advisor@usa.net>]

Ruth was kind enough to respond to my post.  Thank you, Ruth, for
taking the time, it shows me that you really do care about the
issues that face all of us as Americans, today.  I have reprinted
my questions and Ruth's answers as well as my rebuttal, marked by
an "R:".  Please keep expressing your thoughts, it is your right
as an American and I am very proud to share in this discussion with
you and everyone else who has contributed.  This is the greatest
nation in history.

1. Does Social Security promote individual retirement or suppress it?
A.  Social Security promotes it.  A larger fraction of Americans
have individual retirement funds set aside now than when Social 
Security began.

R: What makes you think that is a result of the Social Security
system?  I know that I have an IRA and other investments because
I know that I CANNOT count on OASDI benefits; moreover, I would
not want to.  My savings exist despite SS not because of it.


2. How can a system that pays benefits from current income
survive during demographic shifts, such as the upcoming Baby
Boom generation's retirement?
A.  That is what we are discussing.  There are only probabilities.No
one, no matter how conservative or liberal or moderate knows the
future.

R: There is a fundamental flaw in a system that takes from one
group of individuals to support another group.  If any other entity
was involved in this activity it would be considered theft.


3. Other than following the laws of the Constitution and ensuring
where another's begin and vice-versa, does the government have a
right to make an action "compulsory" for your own "good"?
A.  This question is gibberish and gets an "F" in English.  
Rewrite it, please.

R: I apologize for the way this question was posted.  Thank you
for correcting me (isn't an "F" a little severe) This is how I had
originally written it:
The government is obligated to follow the laws of the Constitution
and ensure that your rights end where another's begin and that
other's rights end where yours begin.

Q: Does the government have a right to make an action "compulsory"
for your own "good"?


4. Does the "Federal"(?) government have the right to collect an
 income tax from an individual citizen?
A. Under the U.S. constitution as amended, it certainly does.

R:  It seems as though you believe that the Congress has the right
to amend the constitution as they please.  This is not the case;
there are certain fundamental principals that cannot be amended.
These include some minor provisions such as three branches of
government, consent of the governed, the establishment of a federal
system, a republican government, taxation with representation, etc.
If we allow any amendment that Congress sees fit to enact then we
open ourselves to the likely possibility of a fascist and tyrannical
government.  Our country is based on individual freedom.  I certainly
hope you have not forgotten that.


5. Does the "Federal" government have a right or an obligation 
to provide welfare services to citizens who, for whatever reason,
cannot or will not provide for their own prosperity?
A.  I find this a complicated legal question that i am not
competent to answer.  It has been the consensus in the U.S. during
most of my lifetime and in all other advanced countries today 
that it does.

R:  I apologize if I represented this question as a legal question.
I meant it as a philosophical question about principals.  As an
American citizen you are qualified to answer.  Individual, voluntary
charity is a choice we all have.  It is important to note that it
is a choice, not a duty.  If we assign the government as administrator
of charity then charity is no longer a choice.  Obviously the OASDI
system is not a choice, then why does it provide charity?  Since
when do we compare America to other "advanced" countries?  Other
nations that have become advanced have patterned themselves after
us.  Of course due their more socialist tendencies, none have ever
come close to the advancement we enjoy here.


6. Can the United States of America continue to exist as a
republic with a capitalist economy if the "Federal" government
persists in its employment of fascist-socialist methods?
A.  This is a very fine example of what a total lack of logic can
do to a question, and as such does not deserve an answer.

R: I would be very interested in knowing where my logic was flawed.
I wrote these questions and all of the other posts out of respect
for you as much as to express my rights as an American; I find it
sad that you do not give me the respect of an answer.

I do not think this quiz is helpful to the discussion.  There
are,after all, real problems in the world, and some of us are
trying to help solve them.

R: Again, I am sad that you feel this way.  I think that the assault
on American principals is a real problem.  Although, I feel for
the rest of the world, my focus is on solving the problems I am
exposed to, right here in my homeland, The USA.  This "quiz" was
designed to promote thinking.  Whether you agree with my opinions
or not is your choice; however, only ignorance balks at the chance
to think.

Thank you for allowing me to rebut your answers.  As an American
I welcome the chance to defend my principals in open debate.  This
is a right that is easily taken for granted, most of the people of
the world do not enjoy this right.  We should all be thankful that
we have it.