Discussion Summary: July 19, 2001

Dialogue Day 9 Agenda: States, Tribes and Local Governments

Dialogue moderator Bob Carlitz and host Mark Flory, from the State and Local Government Team in EPA's Office of Congressional and Intergovernmental Relations, welcomed participants and introduced today's topic: States, Tribes and Local Governments. Bob Carlitz pointed out that states, Tribes and local governments are not only affected by EPA's decisions; they are also co-regulators in the environmental field. He invited comments on this dual role in the following areas:

• States best practice
• Tribal government best practice
• Local government best practice
• Involvement in delegated programs
• Supporting local government's participation

Mark Flory's work ten years ago in the Region 9 San Francisco office introduced him to the issues involved in co-regulation, and the greatest challenges he faced at that time were identifying and involving the "public" relevant to a given issue, and then getting them involved and keeping them from feeling overwhelmed by floods of data. He invited comments on whether these are still problems for those working with state and local agencies today.

In order to accommodate postings from Hawaii, messages appearing by midnight Eastern time appear in today's summary.

• Facilitator Laurie Maak announced that the Dialogue has 1145 people registered as participants and observers worldwide, and supplied the URL for the map showing geographical distribution in the US (with apologies to Alaska and Hawaii, not yet included).

• Panelists introduced themselves and described their work and their concerns. Hamilton Brown, from EPA's Small Town Task Force, finds that small communities often feel they are being made to follow requirements that were established with the resources of major metropolitan areas in mind. The indigenous communities that Patricia Cochran (Inupiat herself) works with in Alaska have found their subsistence food contaminated, and her organization works with EPA not only to gather information about the contamination, but to document indigenous perceptions of the problem. Mary Hamel, from the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, has gathered information on which co-regulatory practices have worked in her state (wellhead protection worked best when all affected local jurisdictions cooperated). Jim Marxen, with the California Department of Toxic Substances Control, says that community assessment provides a valuable tool in regulatory practice, but only if local communities are involved early in the process. Romel Pascual, Assistant Secretary for Environmental Justice at California EPA, also stressed early involvement of all affected localities. Linda Giannelli Pratt, program manager of the Community Sustainability Program for the City of San Diego, notes that environmental aims at all levels of government are basically the same, and hopes that better communication will make it easier for the different levels to work together.

• A number of messages continued to focus on effective ways to involve the public, rather than on interagency dynamics. New Hampshire, for example, has an intern working on environmental justice for 12 weeks, and he wrote requesting suggestions for inexpensive, short-term projects. As in yesterday's discussion, EPA was asked how it will reach members of the public who need a longer period of education to understand regulatory issues.

• Fred Stoss provides the URL of a database of subnational federal agencies, state and Tribal environmental agencies, and municipal health sites, compiled by the National Council for Science and the Environment.

States Best Practice

• Co-regulation can be difficult. States are often at a disadvantage, in that permitting processes don't let states consider issues that are important to the public. A co- regulatory opportunity was lost when lead standards were revised: state lead agencies were excluded from early planning for the new regulations.

• Nevertheless successes were reported. Eileen Ringnalda responded to Hamel by offering communication techniques she has learned working in road design. In state hearings on new power plants in Illinois, the public is allowed to ask questions about many other issues as well, since the hearing is usually their only chance to talk to state officials. California EPA has been successful in bringing USEPA and local air quality management people together for training. Bill Crews describes the National Environmental Performance Partnership System in the EPA Office of Congressional and Intergovernmental Relations.

Tribal Government Best Practice

• Postings about apparent "special treatment" for Tribes prompted another reminder that Tribes are in fact sovereign nations and as such are not treated simply like segments of the larger US population. As in an earlier discussion, it was pointed out that Tribes are not identical; there is no one practice appropriate to all Tribes.

• Postings in this area were primarily positive. EPA's General Assistance Program works to develop Tribal environmental protection programs. The result is a group of Tribal environmental specialists, who can aid in communication. California gives "Harmony Workshops" to teach appropriate communications to non-Tribal people who will be working with Tribes. Dean Suagee offers specific advice on what statutes to use in protecting Tribal sites.

Local Government Best Practice

• Panelist Linda Giannelli Pratt summarizes a draft federalism executive order prepared by her Local Government Advisory Council, which states that "Issues not national in scope or significance are most appropriately addressed by the level of government closest to the people." This draft order calls for accountability and coordination, and-again echoing a theme heard throughout the Dialogue-calls for early and frequent consultation with local governments.

• Panelist Hamilton Brown points out that EPA must reach out to local governments when new rules will affect local finances. Panelist Mary Hamel notes that Wisconsin gives out environmental loans, and conducts workshops to teach local governments how to apply for them. She suggests that EPA identify national groups representing different levels of local government, to offer information but also to get feedback on how best to approach local governments.

Delegated Programs

• EPA has a tendency to separate state and Tribal delegated programs, and the suggestion was made to bring the programs together when they concern areas where states and Tribes are both impacted.

Each day's summary is intended to capture the essence of the conversation. While this summary contains the highlights of participants' contributions relating to today's topics, more comprehensive information may be found in the individual postings.

Katherine Carlitz, Reporter