Discussion Summary: July 17, 2001

Dialogue Day 7 Agenda: Permits and Rules

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Dialogue moderator Bob Carlitz and host Rebecca Astin from EPA's Office of Air and Radiation introduced today's topic: Permits and Rules. Rebecca Astin asked for suggestions on how EPA can encourage groups outside Washington to participate in national rulemakings, and how EPA can best obtain input from small businesses when making permitting and regulatory decisions. In line with today's agenda, Bob Carlitz invited comments on the following topics:

• Improving public input to permitting
• Best practices for public hearings
• Broadening participation
• Tools to help the public
• Changes in the Unified Agenda
• Public input for enforcement actions
• Input from small business

Note: Postings appearing by 10:00 PM Eastern Standard Time appear in today's summary.

As on previous days, most of the messages remained concerned with local rather than national action. They clustered in the following three areas:

Improve Input to Permitting

• There were several examples where agencies either issued permits without taking public input, or "dumbed down" the public input to the degree that it could no longer be effective.

• To avoid such scenarios, a number of participants described ideal permit processes, in which agencies would make available all data on new facilities, publicize the procedures for public input, make documents readily available, and carry out training activities. It was emphasized that the public needs to see proposed rules and permits early enough to play a role in the process. A successful process would ensure that a given Authority and the Applicant would both understand how a new permit would mesh with previously existing ones.

• However, three postings dispute these ideals. A small business representative suggested that smaller businesses need simpler procedures. And while the public feels it is often given inadequate information, the permittees feel that they have to meet difficult requirements even for activities with minimal impact. These two views of the permit process will probably persist.

• One of the panelists wrote that learning to read permits could be of real value to citizens, an excellent capacity- builder. Another urged participants to keep up with developments in testing technique, so as to know what to demand of agencies.

Best Practices for Public Hearings

• Here also, a number of postings described experiences of "worst practices," in which agencies kept public input off the record, closed comment periods the day after informational meetings, and delay acting on permits. The table and microphone format intimidates some citizens.

• Suggested remedies were to distinguish between meetings (for consensus-building) and hearings (on the record). Meetings and hearings need to be focused. The chair should clarify precisely which issues will be addressed. A two- meeting format was suggested for the permit process: an initial meeting just to disseminate information, and a final meeting for informed discussion.

• The more serious concern is "dialogue burnout." The downside to the current emphasis on consensus-building is that too many meetings just aim at producing positive feelings. People increasingly want to participate in making decisions that will actually be carried out.

Small Business Input

• The panelist from the EPA Office of Policy, Economics and Innovation explained the 1980 Regulatory Flexibility Act and later related legislation. This legislation aims to level the playing field for small businesses, since large businesses have the resources to respond to more complex regulations. Smaller businesses may be saddled with less rigorous testing and less intensive reporting.

• Obstacles to small business participation in rulemaking are that with smaller staffs they may have no one who can participate in hearings; they may know their own business but not the industry as a whole; they may know business but not how regulations are written.

• The small business representative in the discussion gave a very different perspective. Small businesses interact with state and local agencies far more than with federal agencies, and they look to their trade associations to represent them in national-level discussions.

Each day's summary is intended to capture the essence of the conversation. While this summary contains the highlights of participants' contributions relating to today's topics, more comprehensive information may be found in the individual postings.

Katherine Carlitz, Reporter